[Vanhackspace] hacker dojo

[Luke Closs]

I pretty much agree with your stance on money, and I share your appreciation
of the tension between getting space vs getting a critical mass of members.

I've created a thought experiment for our group.  Please take a look at this
page and add yourself:

* http://pageoftext.com/yvrhackerdojo_thought_experiment

Cheers,
Luke



On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 11:50 PM, Joe Bowser <bowserj at uselessdegree.net>wrote:

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> Luke Closs wrote:
> > On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 6:11 PM, Jeff Davis <jeff at textsfornothing.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >> And for people making a decent wage, $50 for 24/7 access to a
> >> workshop (or $25 for moderate-to-heavy use without a key) seems like a
> >> pretty good deal.
> >>
> >
> > In fact it's a ridiculously cheap deal!
> >
> > I guess I just worry that a few people paying $50/month isn't going to be
> > enough to cover a $2000-3000/month operating budget.
>
> I don't think membership alone will ever cover our costs.  We've
> mentioned this the last time we discussed this issue.  Jacking up the
> fees so that it's unaffordable to practically everyone isn't the
> solution.  All that does is kill the whole thing, because nobody can
> afford it.  I think we can acknowledge that the first six months of a
> new space will have to be run at a loss and it will require some
> dedicated people to put in more money than their $50 to get it off the
> ground until the $50/month (and more likely the $25/month) memberships
> start taking the pressure off.
>
> Remember that instead of it just being one day a week, this will be an
> actual space with stuff happening at it all the time.  Tuesday sucks for
> a lot of people, and I think if there was stuff happening at another
> time during the week, a lot more people will show up.  Right now, we're
> only doing things once a week, and we maxed Tuesday out.  We can't even
> fit our programming in Tuesday.  (With Arduino and Kit night, we only
> have two nights devoted to other topics, one software and one hardware.)
>
> In short, not everyone wants to be at the hackerspace ALL the time.  But
> there are tons of people who want a hackerspace to exist, and if they
> could make it to a hackerspace on a day that's good for them, they'll be
> willing to pay for that.  Right now the people that are paying are
> paying because they're awesome!
>
> Furthermore, here are things that we can charge for:
> - - Materials
> - - Tool Usage
> - - Beverages
> - - Event Rental
> - - Non Open House Drop-In (IMO, Tuesday should be the only day that will
> be free, and only because it's in the pattern!)
>
> None of these are big numbers, but given that this can increase given
> the number of people who use the space, I think it's worth considering
> as well.
>
> Once we have a space, we have a space and we can monetize that space.
> That can mean renting out offices, that can also mean having it booked
> for outside classes, and it also means having it available for various
> gatherings and fundraisers.
>
> >
> > I also am a bit skeptical that the lazer will be a huge money maker (I'd
> > love to be proven wrong).
>
> The laser won't make a profit until it's paid off.  However, we already
> had people offer us money for time on the laser and we don't even have
> the thing yet.  I have confidence that it will pay itself off, but will
> not be a huge part of the budget. (Maybe $200/month)
>
> I heard goldfish suggest we build and sell
> > little things for $5 or something (I forget the context).  I think that's
> > not worth our time.
>
> I think that it's worth our time as far as outreach and making sure we
> have those $25/month people coming into the space.  They're members and
> unless the economy has really hit the shitter, $25 is still greater than
> $0 by about 25 dollars.
>
> IMO, 6 people paying $500/month is not sustainable in the long term,
> where 120 people all paying $25 is more sustainable.  The 6 people at
> $500 is great for bootstrapping a space, but if we don't actually get
> more people, it's not going to happen, and we'll close in 6 months.  I
> personally think we'll probably have about 40 members, and will be able
> to scrape by with fundraising and other revenue (and by scrape by, I
> mean have 3 months rent in the bank), but only if we get a space and
> concentrate on getting people to check it out.
>
> Given how many times we've decided to not do outreach because we're at
> capacity, this is exactly why I'm not as worried about if people will
> show up.  (I'm more worried about us not getting the word out once we
> get the space, and people not showing up because they don't know we
> exist.  That WILL kill us.)
>
> If we want to make money selling something (that will
> > substantially benefit VHS), we need to A) sell 100's, and B) have a
> pretty
> > decent markup.  I think it's totally doable to start selling one or more
> > kits, perhaps partially assembled.
>
> I think we should make the kits and sell them both online, and at the
> space as part of classes.  I don't think we're in an either/or position
> at this point. A unit moved is a unit moved.
>
> In short, we can't afford to price ourselves out of the reach of our
> perspective members.  We also have to get people confirmed as people who
> are willing to put down a one time donation, or an ongoing monthly
> donation greater than $50.  Once we're incorporated, and once we have
> the space lined up, that's the next thing that we should do.
>
> Do people want to talk about this this Tuesday?  This might be too
> important to leave to IRC/Email, and I don't think we talk about the
> money situation enough.
>
> Joe
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