[Vanhackspace] Last Night's Meeting

[Scott McWhirter]

Hey all,

So I'm really not interested in this whole "holier-than-thou-art"
politics bullshit. To put things in perspective, what I believe this
group was put together to do was to get like minded people together to
hack on stuff. Currently all I have really seen is brawling about
principles and pushing politics down others throats.

Once the group is actually about hacking stuff I'll certainly jump
straight on board, however until then, I'm out.

thanks,


-- 
-Scott- | -konobi-

On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 11:35, Austin <austin at artefactual.com> wrote:
> Joe, I think you may be reading into things to deeply.  I dont believe
> things went as dramatically as they sound in these emails.  For me
> atleast I am having trouble figuring out if I was arguing with you or
> against you.. am I one of these so called mob members because of my
> interest in information.. and my love for dabate?  Or was I one of the
> attacked.. who knows.. it dosnt really mater, Last night was good
> because it had us all make a stand on where we stand in this world of
> information and how information on our selves and on our projects should
> be handled.  I think we have gotten to the point where many of us stand
> in this vast sea of information and find it hard to make it clear as to
> what are exactly best practises when involving information, while I
> argued the side of necessary security and that some of the world may
> thwart our wonderous hacking plans if it goes against them making
> money.. I also was well aware of something welling up in side knowing
> that in the end open knowledge is good knowledge.. but I had to regress
> back to protection as I do not feel that we live in the utopia state
> that I am dreaming of.    As for the meeting we are doing good.. I
> thought that was a amazing meeting.  If it wasnt so lively I imagine I
> wouldnt plan on making the next one(next time Ill bring some brew).  The
> fact that we have strong beliefs.. ones that we may raise voices over is
> a good strong sign that we have a good empowered group of people, that
> care alot about the direction we are going in..  *shrugs* dog needs a
> walk, I hope to see everyone next week..  be well,
>
> -a
>
> On Wed, 2008-09-03 at 11:21 -0700, Joe Bowser wrote:
>> The fact of the matter is that I was singled out, and that for the
>> rest of the meeting my ability to participate in the meeting was
>> compromised.  It's further compromised by your sheer and utter lack of
>> taking any responsibility for the meeting.  The reason that I sent it
>> out to the list is that we were ALL at fault for the way that meeting
>> went, and at the end I felt the most disempowered.  Instead you quote
>> documents and platitudes instead of actually addressing the fact that
>> there was someone that at the end was disempowered.  Of course, it's a
>> straight white male, so who the fuck cares, right?
>>
>> I agreed that my comment about the reporter was sexist, and that was
>> fine.  The problem is that I didn't feel it was resolved and I felt
>> that it was and STILL IS behind held over my head.  The fact that this
>> incident sets the tone for the space is a very dangerous precident
>> indeed.  The fact is that now I will now forever have be on the
>> defensive because of one minor mistake, constantly waiting for someone
>> else to fuck up so I can pownce on them is not healthy.  A space where
>> we can't be free to make mistakes is a space that I don't want to be
>> in.
>>
>> Eventually Jeff took over the facilitation role, while I was ready to
>> pack up and leave because I was unhappy with the fact that it was near
>> impossible to participate without yelling over other people.  What
>> happened at that meeting was not consensus, it was a small mob calling
>> the shots.
>>
>> Case in point, when people talked about minutes being open vs closed,
>> it was clear that it was getting far out of hand that I had to
>> out-yell people to even participate in the conversation.  Shane, you
>> were the dominant person in the conversation, and halfway through I
>> gave up on the consensus process, and proceeded to pack up.  I think
>> it was evident by my lack of participation, the comment I made about
>> standing aside on all decisions past a certain point, and my general
>> demeanour past a certain point that I was no longer interested in
>> participating in the meeting.  Some people wish the space to be open
>> to all, and to be a welcoming, inclusive space, and some want to form
>> a cadre.
>>
>> I'm only going to attend meetings when absolutely necessary.  Meetings
>> should not be what the space is about in the first place, and it's
>> clear that these meetings have zero room for mistakes.  If you make a
>> mistake, then you're fucked and you might as well leave.  Thats the
>> message that I'm getting from this.
>>
>> Joe
>>
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